Sponsor |  digits | May 27, 2007 4:54am | Stay weary of dropping critical thinking in the place of faith I say. There is a place for critical thinking in the world of the material [at least this is how I believe]. I know that I won't have faith over gravity as I ascend 50 stories and stand on the roof to "have faith" and jump.
[BUT...I DO have a friend who came over the other night and she says "The Lord's got me." I love her...she is dear to me. She would *have* to say that though cause all evidence shows that her truck would NOT make it to the beach so in this case, she had to rely on faith and drop the critical thinking if her desires were to win out for that truck to get her to the beach. LoL]
*new avatar - thanks Ashlyn - I thought I'd do something for the group*
PS> 19 - Maybe the ghost didn't want to come. LoL ...For what it's worth...and this is probably better in another thread but I just want to relate: I have never been able to "manifest" a ghost or spirit. If I have ever seen anything - and I have - it's when I am doing my normal day to day. I have a feeling that I have been in your place before...wanting to see something but for whatever reason, it not occuring. |
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Sponsor | | lovingpoet | May 27, 2007 4:19pm | 19) I am of the same thought as digits. Experiences happen to us, not for us. I think that stands in all parts of life, not just in paranormal instances. I also think that interpretation of events are different to different individuals. For example, not everyone observes the same opinion of a certain "Ghost" documentary type show. What some may find facinating television, others may find laughable...and "fake".
I think it is this difference of interpretation that leads to witnesses of the same event having vastly different versions of the story to tell.
Here is a site I found with an interesting "true" story:
wirenot.net/X/Articles/2006/P-R/phantomsounds.shtml [wirenot.net/X/Articles/2006/P-R/phantomsounds.shtml] |
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Sponsor | | digits | May 29, 2007 5:48pm | It's comforting to know that phantom sounds isn't a phenomena that no one talks about. This woman has no reason to embellish this story - as I have no need to embellish my story. I'm not trying to sell a book or a service or even a belief for that matter.
I know skeptics exist and I'm alright with them. If no one has experienced odd or strange phenomenon how could anyone not be skeptical? You know? I like this story. It's like others I have heard - only more extreme. |
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Sponsor | | lovingpoet | Jul 17, 2007 10:53pm | I will "play the role" of skeptic here...for conversation sake:
Does anyone here feel this is what we have been discussing in whole, or in part, in this thread?
By LINDA CARROLL
Published: August 21, 2001
Sidney Kleinman can't get a good night's sleep. The street can be still, the wind calm and the neighbors peaceful, but the racket and roar in Mr. Kleinman's head can become so loud that it jolts him out of the deepest slumber. There may as well be a block full of car alarms clanging through the night.
''It wakes me up like an alarm clock every hour and a half or so,'' said Mr. Kleinman, a 69-year-old lawyer in Chicago. ''In one ear I hear a sort of electronic pinging, like crickets chirping, and in the other I hear roaring.''
The sounds are heard by no one but Mr. Kleinman. They are the result of an odd neurochemical mix-up in the brain, a condition known as tinnitus.
More than 50 million Americans hear these phantom noises from time to time. For most, the sounds are sporadic, and soft enough to be ignored. But for one in five people with tinnitus, the ringing, whistling, pinging or roaring is loud and frequent enough to bring life to a halt.
For years, experts thought the source of tinnitus was in the ears. Usually the odd sounds started after an auditory trauma, like being exposed to noise loud enough to injure the ears, and many sufferers also had some hearing loss in the ear that had ringing or buzzing.
But over the past decade, researchers have been turning their attention to the brain.
Experts now think the illusory sounds are actually the result of faulty signal processing in the brain, very much like the phantom limb pains that can arise after an amputation. In both cases, the brain is trying, and failing, to make sense of the information coming to it from nerves that have been either severed or damaged.
With imaging techniques like functional M.R.I.'s and PET scanning, researchers are pinpointing the regions of the brain where phantom noises originate. The ultimate goal is to find a way to turn off the noise.
Researchers first suspected that tinnitus might have its origin in the brain when treatments that involved cutting the nerve from the ear to the brain failed to stop the ringing in some patients.
Another bit of evidence came from patients who had their auditory nerve removed because it was cancerous.
''They go completely deaf,'' said Dr. Richard Salvi, a professor at the State University of New York at Buffalo and co-director of its Center for Hearing and Deafness. ''And they frequently develop ringing in the deaf ear. The ear is no longer connected to the brain, and yet they perceive sounds like rushing or ringing in the ear. So undoubtedly the tinnitus must be originating in the brain.''
But scientists wondered how to prove the hypothesis. Tinnitus can be difficult to study. For some people, the noise turns on and off with no predictability. For others, the ringing or rushing is constant, making it difficult to detect the differences between normal and abnormal brain activity in an individual.
The difficulties inspired some ingenious strategies. In one study, scientists scrutinized patients who had hearing in both ears but experienced phantom sounds in only one. This let the researchers compare brain activity from the two ears.
Using M.R.I.'s, which show changes in brain activity, researchers looked for differences as the subjects of the study listened to sounds in both ears. They expected that since the side with tinnitus was already active most of the time, it would shine less brightly compared with the normal side when sounds were played.
Ultimately, the researchers found that a part of the mid-brain, known as the inferior colliculus, showed the pattern they were looking for.
That doesn't necessarily mean the phantom sounds are generated in the inferior colliculus, said Dr. Jennifer Melcher, an assistant professor at Harvard Medical School and a research scientist at the Massachusetts Eye and Ear Infirmary. ''There could be abnormal signals coming from below or above,'' she said. ''We may just be seeing the manifestation there.'' |
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Sponsor | | Bohemian-Spirit | Jul 18, 2007 7:23am | 24. This is a very interesting article, and I'm sure that there is something behind the science.
However, speaking from experience, (I do get bouts of tinnitis at times) the voices and bangs I hear are completely different. When I get the tinnitis ringing or buzzing, it is clearly "in my ear". It feels like having a water bubble stuck in there. It's clearly an "ear" thing.
The other noises, while I do "hear" them are not in my ear, but rather in my head. I don't really know how to explain that any better, but there is a definite distinction between the two.
I am willing to admit that it may still be explainable by science and chemicals, but there are definitely two different types of "hearing things" in my experience. I'd like to keep the possibility of metaphysical or phantom memory or something like that open. Scientists are trained to concentrate on the physical, but the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Pagans and Arabs knew enough to allow for ALL possibilities, and these were some of the most advanced cultures on earth before they were destroyed by unbelievers. |
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Sponsor | | lovingpoet | Jul 18, 2007 8:11am | I believe much the same way, yet I feel there is a fine line in this subject in particular, where phantom noise may have a physical source.
For instance, anyone who owns a playstation 2. (I mention this particular item only because it relates to my personal experience)
If the machine is on, and running a game or movie, and the TV is switched from video mode to TV, The game or movie audio is still audible from the machine its self...and could be mistakenly thought of as a phantom sound. The same happens in reverse...the sound from the station the TV is on is barely audible while the TV is in Video mode.
Now, I am sure the "newer" the TV, and more expensive...the less this is possible...these are just experiences from my humble exsistance.
Now...
With all that said, I believe much as you do Bohemian-Spirit, with what you said...basically that there are two distinctive sources....except I would expand that to a much higher number of sources...including but not limited to the metaphysical or phantom memory source. |
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Sponsor | | Bohemian-Spirit | Jul 18, 2007 8:19am | 26. Absolutely. I provided those as examples, I agree that until we have a definitive answer from scientists, metaphysicians, psychics, or whomever as to what causes these sounds and/or voices that we need to keep our minds open to all possibilities.
I believe this for most of the threads in this forum. :) |
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Sponsor | | lovingpoet | Jul 18, 2007 12:30pm | "I agree that until we have a definitive answer from scientists"
Some things will remain unanswered...and so be it...I think it is more fun to not know "everything" and pose hypothisis...science can be interesting...but can also make life boring :-) |
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Sponsor | | digits | Jul 18, 2007 2:28pm | Oh at LEAST two types of hearing things for sure!
When my sister and I heard our dad.
When I hear my cell phone ringing in another room.
When I "hear" something in my head and I "answer" as the person was thinking...
what i find maddening is that some people need to classify things as "scientific" in order they feel comfortable. This is where being in conversation with a skeptic [not normal skeptic. i am a nortmal skeptic. but a non-believer. one who has a "rational/material" explanation for *everything.* - ie, nothing is spiritual. nothing is metaphysical. it's all in your head - a machination...] is frustrating. They don't give credit to people for knowing their own minds or experiences.
[Oh you and your sister both didn't hear it. Your sister just told you she did. And your phone wasn't really ringing. It was the "ringing" in your ears.]
I think Science can be a very big help in backing up and explaining things. My heart is beating by itself and I am not plugged it. Wow. Wow. Wow. Because science *can* explain some things about it doesn't make it any less miraculous or "metaphysical" - for all I know there's an astral cord connecting my heart to the heart of God. Science cannot explain that right now. But if they ever do...watch how skeptics will then trivialize that. |
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